The value mantras of Atomic Object arose from a common understanding that lived in our collective heads and daily interactions. For example, it was during an interview debrief, when we were deciding whether or not to extend an offer, that I first heard Patrick Bacon observe that the candidate really didn’t seem to “give a shit” about his own growth and mastery. (No offer was extended.) Patrick’s comment seemed to me the perfect way to summarize our desire to work only with people fully committed to their projects, customers, careers, peers and company. I first used this phrase publicly in a keynote talk for GLSEC in 2006.
I formally named our values in 2009 after a discussion with Jeff Patton. When describing our somewhat lengthy Values Atomica document to him, he suggested distilling the ideas it contained into smaller, handier phrases. It was easy to name our first, and perhaps most strongly held mantra: “give a shit”. That name has also given me pause at times. The sentiment could be expressed as “care deeply”; the meaning is close, the wording less controversial and memorable.
Many job candidates respond positively to our first mantra. I generally get a laugh when I use it in a talk, and positive comments afterward. On the other hand, I’ve heard from at least one experienced employee at a largish client of Atomic’s that it makes us seem immature. Therefore, I have to assume there are some potential clients, who I may never talk to, who read or hear Atomic’s value mantras and have a negative reaction.
Using the name of the mantra as it exists internally is consistent with another closely held mantra, namely to “act transparently”. “Give a shit” connotes active participation in life and work, an essential behavior for all Atoms. It thus seems like the right way to describe Atomic. On the other hand, there’s no good to be done by offending people externally.
I’m very curious what GNB readers think. “Give a shit” or “care deeply” — which name would you use in public, and why?
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Andrew
October 11, 2012I love “Give a shit” as a mantra and relay it often. Considering the tie into “act transparently”, re-naming to “Care deeply” seems like hiding the true nature of Atomic, sheer awesome :)
Carl Erickson
October 11, 2012Hoist by own petard. If we didn’t use the true language we’d be acting counter to the fifth mantra. Nice catch, Andrew.
Trystan Spangler
October 11, 2012“Give a shit” sounds much more active – like you care about something enough to roll up your sleeves and do something about it. “Care deeply” sounds like it should be accompanied by some stock photo of a generic businessman.
Oil companies care about the environment but do they give a shit?
Carl Erickson
October 11, 2012My super awesome nuclear assistant Mallory made the same point, Trystan: active vs passive. And that matters.
Dave
October 11, 2012“Give a shit” also connotes much about your company’s culture to the outside world. Let the others care deeply – only the bold can claim to give a shit.
Carl Erickson
October 11, 2012I think you’re right, Dave. And the customers for whom we’re too bold might not be happy with us for other reasons.
Scott Woods
October 12, 2012I think that it’s a somewhat difficult balance to strike, since it’s going to be part of a first impression. By using a phrase as strong as “give a shit” so early in your self-presentation to others, it’s going to set you apart. You just want to make sure it’s done in the right way.
I imagine that your concern is not offending people. As you said, it can be one of those excellent early filters for those who might not be a good match anyway.
The real concern is not so much that the word “shit” is being used, or whether it’s offensive to some people; it’s whether it’s going to put an *accurate* picture in people’s heads in that very short space of time after they first hear it.
Since that phrase part of your internal culture, and you hear it every day and you’ve all grown around it, you and your team know exactly what it means and how it applies to you. You know the context more thoroughly than anyone else ever will.
If you could somehow pass some of that context along with the initial delivery, then it all makes sense and bolsters peoples’ impression of the very things that make Atomic Object special. It would speak boldness, frankness, and responsibility. Even someone who doesn’t swear would get it, and maybe even chuckle at it.
In the wrong context, it’s a just routine phrase with a polarizing word stuck in it.
So you’ll probably have to eyeball the situation, imagery, and surrounding wording of that tagline more than a company with something more bland (like “care deeply”); you may not be able to just stick “give a shit” in flowery cursive on a Christmas card to a potential client, for example. Whoever is arranging or designing each use of that phrase will have to take a little more effort than usual to put themselves in a stranger’s shoes and ask if it’s going to have the right initial impact. That’s not a bad thing.
My take is that it’s a brilliant phrase, and just an incredibly sharp sword. You’ll have to wield it a little more precisely for it to be effective.
Carl Erickson
October 12, 2012Thank you, Scott. Your suggestion about context and being empathetic strikes me as very smart. I’ve shared it internally in fact as we’re in the process of redesigning our website.
Forms
October 12, 2012What’s more fun to say?
Use that.
Carl Erickson
October 12, 2012That makes it easy. To phrase it similarly to the Agile Manifesto, “We value fun over bland inoffensiveness.”
David Christiansen
October 12, 2012I’m Mormon, and I’ve been taught not to swear all my life. I still swear, sometimes, though I usually feel a bit embarrassed by it afterward. I find swearing somewhat fascinating, and I’ve observed that there are essentially three different approaches to it:
– Teetotalers like me who strive to never swear, regardless of the context
– Context-driven swearers who have bizarre rules for when it’s okay to swear and when it’s not (i.e. NSFW, children around, that kind of thing). This group includes those who go out of their way to swear in certain circumstances to make people uncomfortable. This group will often swear in front of a large group and then apologize only to me because they know I am a Mormon and think they have offended me. I find that fairly reprehensible.
– Context oblivious swearers who see their language as part of who they are and don’t give a crap about who’s offended.
Oddly enough, I much prefer the first and last group of swearers over the middle group. I appreciate people who are externally and internally consistent. It’s brave, it’s sincere, and it feels real.Because I know you and some of your colleagues, I would, frankly, be disappointed in you if your mantra was changed to “Care deeply” because, in my mind, it would put you in that middle group that I see as being somewhat spineless.
Based on the same logic it’s safe to say that TroopTrack’s mantra will never include a phrase like “Give a ****” because that would violate the same rule that “Care deeply” would break for you. That’s not who I am and it would be dishonest to try to portray myself or my company as being edgy in this way.
Carl Erickson
October 12, 2012To thine own self be true, Dave.
Christopher Svec
October 13, 20124 thoughts here:
1. The phrase “give a shit” has always had a negative connotation and tone to me. Not because it contains a “swear word,” but because I associate it with NOT giving a shit.
I can’t imagine telling a friend or colleague, “I give a shit about you” instead of “I care about you.” Or if someone asks me if I value doing quality work I’ll say, “Yes, I care about doing a good job” as opposed to “Yes, I give a shit.”
Even your example of not extending an offer to someone who “didn’t seem to ‘give a shit'” seems like a negative association to me.
2. Setting aside the possibility of people being offended or uncomfortable by seeing the word “shit” on a company’s website, I wonder if “shit” is authentic for Atomic Object.
Do Atomic Object employees use the word “shit” on a regular basis? How many times will you use the word “shit” in a pitch or conversation with a potential client? Do you use the phrase “give a shit” outside of a pitch that involves telling clients about your value mantras?
As I browse Atomic Object’s website “give a shit” sticks out as something that doesn’t fit with the rest of your vocabulary. Here’s a couple of what I think are representative quotes from your site:
“We welcome applications from anybody who shares our vision for
building software that delights the people who use it and makes the
companies who fund it more profitable.”
“Our Goals
Help our clients compete in the global marketplace. Continually strengthen our world-class software development process. Be the best possible workplace for those who practice Software Craftsmanship. Contribute to a diverse, innovative, and sustainable Michigan. Be great instead of big.”
None of that seems to jive with “giving a shit.”
3. On your jobs page you say:
“Give a Shit
We are successful at Atomic because everyone cares. We care about
our customers, our company, our colleagues, and our professions. (And
yes, we have another, earthier phrase for this internally.)”
What is this “earthier phrase” (I have a pretty good guess) and why don’t you use it instead? If you’re using a different phrase internally than externally then you’re not being transparent.
4. Would you feel comfortable using the phrase “we give a shit” when you advertise for BitCamp? Why or why not?
Carl Erickson
October 16, 2012These are interesting points, Svec.
I’d say use of the word shit is indeed authentic at Atomic. I used it for the mantra because I heard it repeatedly in this context. And swearing in general isn’t taboo. Doing so in front of clients depends on the client and context.
The inconsistency you noticed on the job page (thanks) reflects a later edit. I had originally used “care deeply” in the title, and the “earthier” phrase was the genuine “give a shit”.
Wouldn’t use it for BitCamp advertising, but would describe BitCamp as an example of two mantras: “give a shit” and “teach and learn”.
Thanks for the careful read and for sharing your analysis.
Paul Skentzos
October 17, 2012I have been waiting to get this off my chest!
I’ve been thinking about this for long time when I first read a write up on it in the AO blog. It strangely bothers me. Now don’t get me wrong, I was an officer in the Navy, so I swore (still swear) for a living, but it was (still is) always in the context of emphasizing that things were not going well and needed to get better soon. The emotion was always negative. However not all swearing is meant to be bad or negative. Samuel Jackson’s characters use swearing very artfully whether trying to get a point across or commenting on a great cheeseburger (I never had a cheeseburger that I could be that passionate about), but I am no Samuel L. Jackson and I don’t think AO is either. I understand the point to be made, but I know that there is a better way to do this (“care deeply”, perhaps..I don’t have a better alternative than the one you already gave). I’m extremely passionate about my wife and daughter, but I would not tell them that I give a shit about them. It sounds cheesy and not very sincere. There is an art to swearing and having it come off sounding cool, but this mantra misses the mark to me. It does affect the brand (at least subconsciously). I know how much AO cares about their craft and I regulatory promote them to people because I know how much they care, but I cringe when I see that mantra. It’s like mixing plaids with stripes. However, based on the comments so far, I’d call it a toss up.
Paul Skentzos
October 17, 2012OK, there should have been some paragraphs in there…
Carl Erickson
October 17, 2012I wonder who’s more likely to leave a comment, Paul, someone who likes it, or someone who doesn’t? Probably the former, I would guess. So maybe it’s not a tossup.
You’ve known AO a long time. I’m glad at least you got this off your chest. ;-)
Your feeling about this phrase being inherently negative is similar to Svec’s observation below. I’m so used to it’s very positive connotations at AO that I didn’t think of it this way.
Thanks for the thoughtful response.
Kelli @ Momma Needs a Beer
October 17, 2012I’ve always loved AO’s “Give a shit” value. Is it offensive? Maybe to some. I’d imagine people like my conservative mother & mother-in-law might take issue with it. Do you want to work with people who *don’t* speak freely and openly about what they truly believe in? People who may take offense to the word “shit”? I believe the line “Give a shit” provides AO authenticity and a spirited passion that “care deeply” (wasn’t that a lotion?) just wouldn’t carry.
Carl Erickson
October 17, 2012I think I’ll get some body lotion custom-labeled with “Give a Shit” for the next quarterly party, Kelli.
Morgan
October 18, 2012If it is true to your group that you indeed give a shit, then stick with it. I once titled a project “Makin’ Shit Better’ that was about improving how we do things. A few people gave me sideways glances for the choice. The people that matter, that gave a shit and want to change things for the better, they loved it. I could have titled it “Process Improvements” or some CMMI like title, but I don’t give a shit about formal maturity models, I just want us to build better software and be happier doing it.
It seems that you do indeed Give a shit, so follow your first value and Own It.
People place funny values on words when it is really the meaning or intent they should object to. It’s ok to say “I don’t give a crap” but “I don’t give a shit” is somehow wrong?
Carl Erickson
October 18, 2012Nice story, Morgan.
A Swedish friend of mine once pointed out that we give a lot of magic power to certain words. One of my colleagues pointed out to me that you better not use the word “stinks” around her grandmother.
Intent can hopefully be communicated by context in this case.
Matt Beaverson
October 24, 2012Well, it is not as offensive as it might be. For instance, you didn’t publish this value as “Give a F**k.”
Carl Erickson
October 24, 2012Damning with faint praise. I’ll take it, Matt.
Guest
November 2, 2012Its seems to be understood that there are differences between ‘Care Deeply’ and ‘Give a Shit’, so why not use both? I ‘Care Deeply’ about my clients, and ‘Give a Shit’ about the work I do.
So: ‘Care Deeply and Give a Shit’
Sliding a nice sentiment and some extra words also softens up the language for those more easily offended.
Great blog to land on, even though I still need to go back to my search for laxatives.
Carl Erickson
November 2, 2012:-) That’s actually a handy suggestion. Thanks.